Varmint 6.61 Great question. I also did the same with my 6.5CM load and it also showed that a longer barrel would have a more consistent barrel time. In fact, I noticed one of their rifles was represented among this group of top shooters, so obviously theyre extremely capable. Order My Barrel. The blank in .308 bore weighs ~6.2 lbs or almost exactly the same as the M24 contour. Hajd-Bihar county is in Northern Great Plain. PVA just seems to have really, really thought through the John Hancock product and its extremely competitive for the price. Related Products. I specifically asked all the guys running PROOF barrels if they were running a steel or carbon fiber barrel, and all of them were using steel barrels on their competition rifles, although a few of them said they run carbon fiber barrels on their hunting rifles. I purchased a newish 22BR less than 20 rounds fired based solely on the fact that it was built by Shilen Rifles in the 90s and was in perfect condition. The barrel is almost completely cooled down by the time I use it to run the next mock stage, because there is some time in transition (writing dope, loading mags, getting bags, etc.). He starts with a long barrel and then chops it off an inch at a time and records what the impact is on muzzle velocity at each increment. Desert Tech DTA Contour- The DTA SRS-A1 rifle has a proprietary switch-barrel design, which is pretty innovative. Im not saying none of these fluted their barrels, or that it is a bad idea but Id be shocked if more than 10% of them did. The Mil-C is also a very good choice, and is what I bought for a new rifle that will arrive any day now. Retired Army Ranger Sniper, RyanCleckner, explains just as the receiver is the main part of the rifle for legal purposes, the barrel is the main part of the rifle for accuracy purposes. The Tremor3 has all kinds of features that Id never use, like wind dots, marks for moving targets (at some specific distance and speed), and range estimation. Great question. Now all that to say, I didnt collect that data myself but he is by far the most anal reloader Ive ever met. For example, compared to a 26 .900 varmint at 5lb 5oz the 26 .900 taperless comes in at 4lb 4oz. Ill say right from the top, there isnt one that is better than the other. Thanks, Taras. One of these top shooters, Chris Gittings (PROOF Researchs Competitive Pro Staff Manager), summed it up well: Everyone is building heavier and heavier guns nowadays. I admit there were several surprises in there for me. Like I said, I can appreciate your optimism and tall standards! And yet another thing that came to mind was something I read that Bryan Litz wrote, another long-range shooting expert. We started by asking the question, Whats the biggest profile we could fit into an MPA or KRG chassis without modifying it? Thats how we ended up with the Competition contour, which is hefty even bigger than the MTU. If theyre not I will start over. If you take a HV and cut the shank length down to MTU dimensions, they are pretty much the same barrel. Ive seen his SDs below 2 fps before, and one time he texted me a photo of a LabRadar that recorded an SD that was in the 0s which is just crazy! Honestly, Im not sure. Also, the bore and groove dimensions are more uniform. Bartlein Barrels. But youre recognizing the issues around it. He basically takes a really long barrel and cuts it off 1 at a time and records the muzzle velocities along the way, so you can estimate how much going from X inches to Y inches will impact your muzzle velocity. A barrel is essentially a steel cylinder with the bore drilled out. MPA 223BA Bolt Action Rifle $ - $ view product. It seems like so many guys were running heavy M24 and MTU, but if you want anything heavier youd have to jump all the way to a straight cylinder, which may require a custom modification to your stock or chassis. There were 12 guys running a rifle that weighed in at 25 pounds, which included 3 guys who finished 11-25 in the PRS, and 1 shooter who finished in the top 10 in the NRL (Matt Medearis). I havent read all the books on long range shooting, but Ive read a lot maybe even most of them! rock creek barrels . One question though, wheres the .308 caliber info? McGowen Barrels, Criterion Barrels, H-S Precision Barrels, and K&P Barrels each had 1 shooter represented. If you plan on stopping by, please call for an appointment. A lighter weight contour when the barrel gets button rifled (Bartlein Barrels only does single point cut rifling) the stress being put into the blank is much greater. This list just doesnt seem to change as much as other gear, but there were a few shifts in 2018 Ill point out below. Is it just reputation, or some difference between manufacturers. Other than that, Im not sure. im debating between 18" kukri (light varmint/medium palma ish), vs 22" kukri vs 20" MTU. . Generally considered an easy route, it takes an average of 46 min to complete. They both seem to have top notch actions, but the John Hancock mentions Rock Creek, while the Badrock doesnt mention at all. Any advice you could offer me would be very appreciated. Sporters vary greatly in weight, and we need to note that the numbers do not reference the barrel weight. So many things play into whether a barrel has the potential to shoot tiny groups, including the quality of the steel, bore/groove consistency, machining/lapping process, and other things that cant be directly observed. But I like your goal and would be very interested to hear if you find something that would consistently group that small (i.e. Curtis Axiom or MPA Action Pre-Fit or Switch Lug Barrels $ 600.00 - $ 660.00. view product. (View other What The Pros Use articles). Stuteville Precision is typically my gunsmith, but I usually buy the exact barrels I want to run and send those to him. REM 700 Sporter. 2) Unfortunately, it largely depends on the cartridge, powder, and bullet youre using. Im not sure, but I know someone at Accuracy International who definitely would know and Ive reached out to him. His conclusion was the carbon embedded in the brass made the friction on the bullet more consistent than a super-clean neck like on brand new brass or after itd be cleaned with an ultrasonic cleaner. For example, black indicates shooters who finished in the top 10 in the PRS, dark blue is those who finished 11-25 in the PRS, and the lighter the blue, the further out they finished in PRS overall standings. Best Rifle Ammo for the Money 19 Brands Tested! Select Options. Thats why I think this post about what barrels the top ranked shooters are running in the Precision Rifle Series (PRS) and the National Rifle League (NRL) is so valuable. M24 contour falls just slightly lower in weight than a comparable MTU or HV barrel of the same length. Straight Taper/Match Contours. . An outstanding article as were those on What The Pros use. Ive been reading your blog for years now. Home | Product Barrel Contour | MTU. Marksman 4.80 So unfortunately I dont have anything to report. While you can guess at it, and I think guessing based on the RifleShooter.com tests is about the best you can do, ultimately you wont know the impact it has on muzzle velocity for sure until you do it. Im curious if there are ties with trajectory stability as compared to bullet weight vs. barrel length? I just cant bring myself to go Controlled Round Feed on the Nucleus. So theyd be close to the weight of the M24 and MTU contours. Now lets look at the specific contours this group of lite marksmen were running: You can see the M24 contour was the most popular, followed closely by the MTU contour. Im just publishing data for guys who finished well overall in the Open Division, and its probably no surprise there werent any guys running Gods cartridge (i.e. Ha! They are all using heavy-for-caliber bullets, so Id expect them to all be towards the faster side of whats available. i wana buy some books to learn more about long range shooting and precision rifle shooting . I always look forward to your articles and objective data. Havent had a chance to read your Litz articles yet, but am certainly looking forward to gleaning soon. Im using a proof research carbon fiber bbl. There is no mention of the 308 win cartridge used for the various barrels used Would be enlightening to know the kind of Barrels being used for the 308 win cartridge and in which contour/barrel length/manafacturer. Options include #1 #2 #3 #4 Sporter contours, specs available on our contours page. And Stuteville isnt the only guy who can do that. Im definitely not a bandwagon kind of guy the opposite in fact. They represented 50% of the top 10 shooters in the NRL, and 30% in the PRS. Bartlein explains, "Our rifling machines are so accurate, we can carry the twist rate to the 4th decimal point(example: 11.3642). Im sure there are limits to that, for example if you launched a long, heavy bullet from a 10 barrel maybe you wouldnt achieve good stability but Id bet its unlikely that there is any practical/measurable impact with traditional barrel lengths used for this kind of shooting. Danny, thanks for the encouragement. CONTOUR * MTU BARREL LENGTH * 29 INCH TWIST RATE * 1.10" Put me on the Waiting List. It is appreciated. So stay tuned! I did write what I believe is the most objective comparison to the Mil vs MOA debate. a little off topic Snipers Hide is a community of Snipers of all kinds, focusing on long range shooting, accuracy, and ballistics. Muzzle Diameters are based off of 26 Lengths shorter lengths will reflect the same profile. It's as simple as that. We pride ourselves and owe it to the sponsors of our sport to give them our business and show them we appreciate there support. The carbon fiber is simply there to add more rigidity without adding much weight. Lt. Bull Sporter 3.84 You must log in or register to reply here. Starting at: $412.50. I think PVA is making this work because they have a close relationship with American Rifle Company and are buying a ton of those actions at what I suspect is a lower price than most people. Long Range Shooting Handbook: This does a pretty good job covering the basics in plain language. All parts of manufacturing a barreled action are done on CNC equipment from the barrel chambering to the oversized bolt knob. You bet, Cameron. Your series are absolutely priceless, keep up the amazing job!!! None of them were using 308, because its not as competitive in long range shooting as these other cartridges. Benchmark Barrels also had 10% of these shooters using one of their barrels. Ha! I do however want your opinion. Since most of these guys see a heavy barrel as a good thing, that shouldnt be too surprising. Objective testing with barrels is so difficult. Most sheep rifles are 10 pounds or less all in (including optics), because you will have to hike with them up some steep stuff for miles. Is this why you recommend the John Hancock? Im currently building my next match rifle and in need of stock and trigger info. It might be the most critical part of the rifle, but we know so little about what makes a good barrel. I need my next fix!!! When I started load development I plugged in all of my data into Quickload and came up with Varget as the best powder for the bullet I had chosen. So whats a guy to do? Lots of world-records have been set with button-rifled barrels. Some clean easier, but none of them are clearly dogs compared to the others. most PRS competitors are running mil). Great question, Kurt. Myself and the other PROOF-sponsored shooters got so many requests for a heavier steel barrel that we asked PROOF for a larger profile. Ive heard it said, Youre always either building your reputation or living off it. Bartlein seems to never stop building their reputation. PROOF Research actually purchased Lawrence Rifle Barrels in 2012, to bring cut-rifle barrel making in-house for better control of consistency and lead times. Sendero Contour is a custom sporter sized between #3 and #4 Sporter. When I went back to Quickload to adjust data to match my actual velocities I decided to adjust barrel length to see what a shorter barrel would give me. Hart has been 2-3% some years, but 0% many years. Thats why they have TV shows like Sheep Shape. My cousin bought the governors tag in Alaska for a dall sheep last year, and it almost killed him! When people think about barrel length, most of us probably think the length decisions came down to wanting to maximize muzzle velocity. Variable shoulder prefits have a smaller shank diameter than fixed shoulders on all action types since the nut creates a large torquing surface. Our rifling machines are so accurate, we can carry the twist rate to the 4th decimal point (example: 11.3642). Out of Stock. The Medium Palma was the lightest contour used, which is kind of funny, because I know hunters who would laugh at me calling a Medium Palma light! But, in the precision rifle game that is about as light as youll see most shooters using. Most these guys pretty much say the same thing when I asked them for their best piece of advice. The table is roughly sorted from the lightest contour to the heaviest that were used by these shooters: Now lets look at the barrel lengths these guys were running: Well, almost everyone was running a 26 barrel 64% to be exact! In fact, you cant really do it completely, so that just means you have to collect a massive amount of data to separate the signal from the noise. Due to this fact, some contours may not be available such as Sendero or M24/MTU on a Remage prefit which would result in an irregular shape being generated. Itll give you a headache to have to constantly translate. Until very recently, the M24 was the heaviest steel barrel that PROOF made. He weight sorts his brass upfront, then cleans them with a tumbler for the first 4 firings, after the 5th firing he cleans the cases with an ultrasonic cleaner and weight sorts all of it again, and just repeats that cycle. Hvy. I have to admit, the results surprised me: I was fully expecting the rifles in the 14-20 pound range, with most around 18-20 but I didnt expect 38% of the shooters running a rifle weighing 21 pounds or more! Ill start by saying that a sheep rifle that shoots in the 0.2s is a tall order! Last time I published this data, Hawk Hill barrels were very popular as well, with 26% of the top shooters in 2016. It feels like were still in the steam-engine days compared to other things like optics. They dont specify any of that on their website. While that study had several interesting findings, when choosing a barrel it largely comes down to an educated bet on the reputation of the company making it. Palma. Or at least one more updated than 2015. I go into the science behind that in a chapter I contributed to Bryan Litzs most recent book, Modern Advancements In Long Range Shooting Volume 2. This article shares the 6XC load data these top-ranked shooters are reloading in their match ammo. The various colors on the chart represent the league and rank of the shooters. Trijicon Ventus: Measuring Range AND WIND! So with barrel life being such an issue why isnt everyone having their barrels intruded??? Contour Dimensions: MTU: Shank Diameter (1.250") Shank Length (2.750") Muzzle Diameter (.930") Weight (7lbs) Length (29" Blank) . . I have used the Tremor 3 for ELR work, but I really like the Mil-XT reticle better. The AI-1960 profile is very similar to the Medium Palma contour and has been the primary contour used by TEAM AI shooters. I then went back and re-evaluated my 6.5x47L load and found that the same load with a 26 bbl according to the graph and barrel time would be a slightly better load. Wow, that is hard for me to say! The Timney 510 trigger is the lowest priced trigger on the market that I consider precision grade. Honestly, I was concerned it was getting too long-winded, so thanks! If it was a match-grade barrel, Id expect theyd tell you what it was. Thanks for putting it all together. . The trend seems to be moving to heavier rifles, which is why you see things like the new PROOF Competition contour popping up. There are some good ELR shooters using MOA scopes. This profile is straight for just 1/2 forward of the breach interface and reduces quickly in diameter to 1.024 and gradually tapering to ~.905 at the muzzle. Honestly, I wish the numbers were all for the same barrel lengths, but manufacturers dont seem to publish them that way. And you didnt help! In a 50 to 80 mile ski marathon this means a lot. I have noticed that it seems my heavy barreled 22AR is less sensitive to my Magnometer hanging on my he end (-.25) than my 25 Ruger PR (-1.25) both 6.5 Creedmoor. There is little to no support from those companys. Krieger Barrels had another strong showing, with 10% of these shooters using one of their barrels. For comparison to the data in the above article, the weight of the blank would be just under 5 lbs. And I dont say that lightly. Hawk Hill Custom Barrelsmade a huge leap in 2015, with 26% of the top shooters running them. Ted, Im not sure how many are sponsored by barrel manufacturers. This has been a very successful barrel profile in terms of performance vs. mass. Well said, Steve. I just dont know much about how it works in this context. 5 30 31 Contact; Stocking Dealers; Welcome to Rock Creek Barrels; Barrel Information. Varmint/Sendero blank. (Learn about the PRS & NRL.) Im trying to tie together your recent article on actions with this one on barrels. Your comments made me immediately think back to an article that Todd Hodnett, one of the most respected long-range shooting trainers in the world, wrote a few years ago (read it here). Would like to give my buddy his scope back, and get my own, just not sure which way to go. They all make barrels that shoot and every now and then a barrel gets through that doesnt (for a variety of reasons). Im just soaking all this up like a sponge in the desert. Both of those are very heavy barrels, at just over 0.9 diameter at the muzzle on a 26 barrel, which is the length most of these guys were running (more on barrel length later). Im quite interested in entering production class, and Ive narrowed it down to the Badrock South Fork and the PVA John Hancock. This past year there were 3 shooters using a 6XC in the top 25 in the PRS, and 4 in the top 25 in the NRL. You bet, Grant! I'd say over 80% of the content was ne Cal: Ha! Should I be that concerned? Below is an example showing the comparison of a traditional steel barrel and an example of a carbon fiber wrapped barrel. Id start with those, and if you were still hungry let me know and I could recommend a list of others. **Please see the prefit barrel page for your action to view the full and up-to-date contour options we offer!**. The PROOF Competition contour released later in the year turned out to have identical dimensions, so Josh Kunz at PVA has simply started referring to his contour as the PROOF Competition too for simplicity. Following those, was the Marksman contour and the Medium Palma. The natural endowments of the county offer horseback riding, fishing and cycling. Accuracy, however drives me. Conversely, a poor-quality rifle with a good barrel can shoot accurately.. The carbon fiber contour option for variable shoulder prefits is the .900" varmint. You can hold an additional amount. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. It's one of the reasons they can maintain 1/2 MOA accuracy across so many calibers. MTU. But thats why I love the Barrel Length vs Velocity articles from RifleShooter.com. Variable Shoulder prefits for actions such as Savage, Remage, Tikka Variable, Ruger, Howa, and Remington 783 contours: All Sporter contours, all Taperless options, All Palma options, and All Varmint options. Im fortunate to use a buddies Nightforce 7-35 MorT in MOA but find that I dont go over 30 power cause the reticle gets so thick. Peter, I didnt focus on that, but each brand mostly just has one approach so itd be pretty easy to figure that out. Order My Barrel. in stock MTU benchmark 6mm 7 twist Terminus Apollo or Axiom $ 750.00 $ 699.00 Read more Sale! I think there were only a few guys at the finale in the Production class, but I probably did get surveys from them. Heavy Target. Heavy Palma and Heavy Varmint were the next most popular contours, and both of those would also be slightly over a 0.9 diameter at the muzzle on a 26 barrel. That goes for both PROOF and Christensen. Payment and Warranty. Part of the reason for their success is that Bartlein uses some of the most advanced computer-aided manufacturing processes available. Our taperless contours have a straight shank 3 forward of the breach with radius down to a set cylindrical diameter starting 5 forward of the breach. I do appreciate the thoughtful comments, and you sharing your ideas. Full Member. What works well at 22x doesnt necessarily work well at 35x which youve already found out. Larger businesses also tend to focus on throughput on the production floor, and there may be pressure for guys to meet certain quotas. There are also several difference pieces of gear you can use. When I began my testing I quickly realized that I had a real shooter on my hands with multiple powder charge weights shooting in the zeros. Starting at: $412.50. I assume that post is coming soon, LOL. 6.5mm BARTLEIN "MTU" Contour Barrel 29" $394.99. I didnt ask about fluting. Your new aiming point is the 6 mil mark below the crosshairs. Bartlein uses some of the most advanced computer-aided manufacturing processes available. Sendero 4.47 Through that he noticed that after the ultrasonic cleaning his SDs would be higher than normal, but then theyd settle back down on subsequent reloads. Theyve simply done a great job establishing and maintaining their position by continuing to turn out barrels that consistently perform at the highest level, both in these tactical/practical field-style rifle competitions, as well as F-Class and Benchrest, some of the worlds elite military units, and other shooting disciplines. The pricing listed in the chart in the gallery above encompasses Adco Firearm's gunsmithing fees plus parkerizing. There are so many variables to contend with when evaluating barrels its difficult to know where to start. From late 2017, this profile is available in 6.5 CM in 24 length on the Model AT. KRIEGER 6.5 HEAVY BULL TARGET "MTU" 1-8 TWIST 29" $409.00. Cal: Ha! When were doing load development, we often say were looking for accuracy nodes which many believe is related to the amount of time the bullet is in the barrel. That included two of the top 10 finishers in the PRS and 1 of the top 10 shooters in the NRL. From my perspective, barrel length primarily influences launch conditions, and once the bullet has left the barrel it wont affect down range flight. While the rifles used in PRS and NRL are predictably following a path to extreme specialization, AI is principally governed by the requirements of police and military end users and we must respect the balance of requirements for rifles used in the real world. 6mm BARTLEIN "MTU" Contour Barrel 29" $394.99. Someone else might chime in if they know. is what is better for ELR , MOA or Mills ? Thanks. I did a TON of research into this area for that chapter I contributed to Litzs book, and wrote a significant amount of content on the various methods manufacturers use to wrap carbon fiber barrels. I think barrel brand comes down to reducing the odds that youd get a dud. Hey, Jim. I dont think you could go wrong with any of the barrels mentioned and many that are not. Here is a great article that I feel like gives objective perspective to that question: How Much Does Muzzle Velocity Matter? First, there are four basic types of rifle barrel contours: sporter contour, straight taper or match contour, Palma contour, and a newer profile that Im calling the Ruger Precision Rifle or Desert Tech contour. Can you enlighten us on what you mean? They responded by allowing us to develop the Competition contour. Barrel Contours from left to right: Contour, Fluted, Dimpled, and Standard. I asked George Gardner about this contour. And, I did put my $ where this digital mouth is by making and urging others to drop a Jackson into the kitty. Light Varmint. The process of Single Point Cut Rifling is the most stress free way to rifle a barrel. Hawk Hill Custom remained one of the top barrel brands, representing 14.5% of the barrels used by the top shooters. This includes rifles scopes, but also spotting scopes and rangefinders. I have. To answer why some barrels are not used heavily by us. I am honestly probably close to being clinically OCD, and he makes me look like a slob! Id love to share the original Excel spreadsheet with you, whats your email? Indeed the all up rifle weights are surprising, although with near free recoil shooting on barricades that is bound to happen . Hope it comes out soon, and feel free to shoot me an email that gets me headed in the right direction. My intent was to use this rifle for prairie dogs and rock chucks with no plan of shooting it competitively. BENCHMARK REMINGTON & MODIFIED REMINGTON CONTOURS. Scott Seigmund I will admit it does feel good to see a tiny SD, and gives you a lot of confidence! 308 Win). Keep up the great work! First (and the simplest approach), thats when having a gridded reticle like the Mil-XT or the Horus style reticles comes in handy. If it was by the flats, it is just because the belt flexed around the flats and it looks different. Hes threading the muzzle, so its not like hes trying to cut corners where he obviously shouldnt. Shop a top-choice selection of Mtu, Mtu 6.5mm barrels right here at OTM Tactical. Yet for a data-driven guy who wants to make objective, informed decisions choosing a barrel can be tough! Rock Creek All 5R either cut or button type rifling (so 5 groove) M24 5.94 3) Id bet so, but that is probably a question for a gunsmith. Ive read it multiple times and still find myself going to pull it off the shelf to reference more than any other book. Very interesting thoughts. I think you might be further along than most. In a 30" barrel, that typically means MTU or HV contour at the heavy end of the scale. Your posts always brighten up my my day. I have some that clean easier but dont necessarily shoot any better and other than that they are all great barrels. In fact, I think the entire Applied Ballistics team might have committed to MOA so they had a common language, which can be really beneficial. Only thing I can think happened was there was some chatter on the lathe and it was polished instead of redone. Appreciate the content? The Mil-XT is a simpler version, but has all the features I need. Krieger Barrels offers a wide variety of both standard and custom barrel contours for bolt action rifles as well as AR10, AR15, M1 Garand, M1A/M14 and service rifles. It was the first large-scale study done on these kinds of barrels that Im aware of, so if youre interested in this stuff you might check that out. While I actually dont enjoy reading, I do love to learn, and Im obviously pretty passionate about this stuff. The most common and widely supplied profile in both the U.S., Europe, and ROW is P/N AI-265XX. Black Friday Sale Starts Friday at 12:01 am! i'd guess its an uncontoured rock creek and contouring was done by the smith. I think youre exactly right want to get better? In fact, I recently did a post on all those that you should check out.