Thank you for posting your request on History Hub! "Krag carbine rough riders serial numbers" #3 05-30-2021, 09:38 AM themeowman : Join Date: Oct 2009 . Plus, its not marked with "model", its just marked with the year of production "1896 Springfield Armory", Indicitive of the Earliest rifles Requested By Roosevelt using his political prowess as former Secretary of the Navy. My question regards the initials "WmT" and "Silent Guns". Military records in our custody do not include the record of assignment and operational activity of individual pieces of equipment. The rifles issued to the United States Army are property of the United States Government. The new rifle was adopted as the "United States Magazine Rifle, Caliber .30, Model of 1892.". All her entire life Channing, a girl from the East Coast has struggled to be what her parent's desire, but she wants to let loose for the first time in her life. Despite its relative success as a combat arm during the Spanish-American War, the Philippine Insurrection and the Boxer Rebellion, the previously discussed inherent design deficiencies of the Krag resulted in its numbered days as the standard American military service arm. Still has the three piece cleaning rod set in the butt! Many M1898s saw active service in the Philippines during the insurrection, but not during the Spanish-American War. By May 1896, all regular U.S. Army cavalry units were equipped with Model 1896 Krag carbines. If not maybe try listing it on the CMP forum. By contrast, the standard U.S. service arm at the time was still the single-shot, blackpowder .45-70 Govt Trapdoor Springfield. In order to address this issue, the U.S. Army Ordnance Board appointed a Magazine Gun Board on Nov. 24, 1890 to consider and recommend a suitable magazine system for rifles and carbines for the military service.. _____ "We make men without chests and expect from them virtue and enterprise. As was the case with their infantry counterparts, the cavalry troopers armed with single-shot Trapdoor carbines looked forward to receiving the new bolt-action repeating carbines with great anticipation. It sounds as if you have pretty much exhausted the available sources on that question. Thanks for any help #2 05-30-2021, 08:04 AM . SPRINGFIELD ARMORY. A forum community dedicated to New Jerseys hunters and enthusiasts. The new pattern carbine was adopted in August 1899 as the U.S. Soon after the Krag carbines were in service, they saw some use against the remaining renegade Apaches who still terrorized parts of Arizona and New Mexico throughout the late 1890s. With the exception of the bolt recess, the stock was identical to the Model 1896 carbines stock. The new Board convened on March 1, 1893, and 14 rifles were submitted for testing. We also recommend searching online and in libraries for published histories of the regiments present at the battle, as they sometimes include lists of soldier names. The World's Largest Collectibles Auctioneer. The first block alone is nearly twice the entire number of guns needed for the 1st USV. Typing our address directly into a map search may misdirect you. Still Available..Taking offersPartial Trades are cool too. Shipping costs are included on every invoice to make gettingyour items as fast and easy as possible. There may be a fee for this service. Unfortunately that was all . For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Manufacturer: Springfield. The Krag stayed in production until 1903, the same year that the new service rifle was adopted and designated as the U.S. What are my Historical Collectibles Worth? Not only that, but without ironclad provenance he probably cant get what it's really worth, which is just another reason to keep it. M1 Garand Rifle Review: How Does This Old War Horse Hold Up Today? Serial Number: 28XXX. Alamy and its logo are trademarks of Alamy Ltd. and are registered in certain countries. This was done primarily to provide badly needed funds to the Ordnance Dept. We have detected that you do not have JavaScript enabled. What do you have for documentation on the rifle? Also, the Mausers stronger bolt-action mechanism enabled it to use higher-velocity cartridges having more power and better performance than the .30-40 Krag. Krag Collectors Association Forum . Unlike most examples, this was not upgraded later to 1902 standards, and also it was not fitted with a saddle ring as most were (See Flayderman's Guide to Antique Firearms). ! Frequently Asked Questions, Ethnographic Art: American Indian, Pre-Columbian & Tribal, Modern & Contemporary, Prints & Multiples, and Urban Art, Jewelry, Timepieces and Luxury Accessories, All Jewelry, Timepieces & Luxury Accessories. But that is all. Powered by Invision Community, Krag Carbine in Rough Rider serial number range, US MILITARIA FORUM - COLLECTORS PRESERVING HISTORY. VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. Records of the Army Chief of Ordnance office showed that this Krag Carbine was sold by Raritan Arsenal, Metuchen, NJ, between July 15 and July 31st, 1922. Yeah, unfortunately pawn shops wouldn't give me NEAR what its worth, and they'd charge me upwards of 30% interest. See here for a list of units. Mechanically excellent. Original Item: Only One Available. 2023 Heritage Auctions | All Rights Reserved. LetCowan'sAssistWithYour Shipping Needs! Broader searches for the term show many other uses as well, often simply to refer to weapons that have not yet started shooting or have ceased shooting at the end of a battle. There were many new guns and lots of new gear to see at the 2023 NRA Annual Meeting & Exhibits. Under normal War Department and Department of the Army records management procedures, such documentation would be destroyed after initial administrative use. On July 1, residents with a clean criminal history of legal age in Florida will be able to carry concealed without a permit. smokeless-powder cartridge. Krag rifle and carbine. These carbines were used throughout the Spanish American War and late in the Philippine Insurrection, most famously by future President Theodore Roosevelt's 1st Volunteer Cavalry "Rough Riders"; among other distinctions, the Rough Riders were the only non-regular unit to be issued the Krag for action in Cuba, due to the political connections of the leadership. As production continued, the receivers were marked Model 1896, regardless of the actual year of manufacture. Is it likely that this is the case? Both Model 1896 Krag carbines and rifles used identical receivers. The serial number tells quite a different story. These rarely come up for sale and this one has a great serial number that is right in the middle of those issued to the Rough Riders. The Rough Rider numbers cluster in 4 ranges: 27010-28995 35164-35741 (only 2 guns in this block) 68013-68758 74097-79499. This carbine is accompanied a Springfield Research Service letter from Frank Mallory confirming the identification by serial number, as well an article about the gun published in US Martial Arms Collector in June of 2018 (#155). Please contact the National Archives in Washington, DC - Textual Reference (RDT1) via email at Archives1reference@nara.gov to access the remaining records. Receiver marked in two lines: U.S. / 1895. by Tom Butts Sat Aug 24, 2019 2:11 am. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. It has the correct carbine length barrel, fitted with a fixed front sight and the Model 1896 rear sight. A number of Krag rifles still remaining in the governments inventory were cut-down, reportedly at Benicia Arsenal, Calif., to approximately carbine length. The Rough Riders used .30-40 caliber U.S. Krag model rifles in the Spanish-American War. March 17th 1885. https://archive.org/details/storyroughrider01marsgoog/page/n332, http://oldguns.net/sn_php/mildateslookup.php. JavaScript is disabled. Ive always wanted to get a Krag carbine. Important: Use our map link to see location / directions. Cutdowns hold NO collector value. When the law goes into effect, the state will be the 26th that recognizes the right. I buy on gunbroker, but never actually sold on there before, guess that'll be my next stop, along with armslist. The Krag-Jorgensen .30-40 is a historically significant rifle in that it transitioned the U.S. military from black powder to smokeless. This documentation confirms it was with Teddy Roosevelt in Cuba. His father's name was William T. Earle. However, we could not find a reference to a unit with that nickname. Return to the Trapdoor Collector home page via this link. The unit mustered in 47 officers and 994 enlisted men, so probably about 900 were armed with Krag carbines, so about 20% of the numbers have been found. 1; 2; 3; Replies: 22 Views: 21983 Last post by RickM Tue Jan 10, 2023 4:52 am; . Find the right content for your market. (Northwest corner of W. Airport Freeway [HWY-183] & Valley View Lane). Street Address: Learn About Selling & Valuing Your Collection. The casehardened receiver is marked "U.S./1895. We searched the National Archives Catalog and located Muster Rolls of Regular Army Organizations, 1784 - 10/31/1912 that may have records listing the personnel of the Regular Army regiments during the Cuban campaign. The Rough Rider numbers cluster in 4 ranges: 27010-28995 35164-35741 (only 2 guns in this block) 68013-68758 74097-79499 By Other militia and volunteer units used the M1873 rifle, the 'Trapdoor Springfield'. The ammunition was cheap and readily available and so they were reasonably popular among hunters and people who simply wanted an old rifle. Save up to 30% when you upgrade to an image pack. . The fact that a foreign gun was chosen over the American designs was an unpopular decision with some of the interested parties, and this displeasure was soon voiced to their respective congressional representatives. As President, Roosevelt would see the military updated with the 1903 Springfield in .30-06. In my many searches of mixing names and locations your post just showed up today. September 12, 2018 10:00 AM EDT Cincinnati. The Heritage Auctions web sites will not function without JavaScript, so we recommend enabling it. Found to be listed with Springfield Research with the following information. Private McCulloch deserted on August 1, 1898, but later returned and was mustered out with the balance of the regiment. Carbine was taken to Nicaragua in the 1920s. Buying a Krag Jorgensen The other was the poem. Plus just from family History, I'd say its a Definitive this rifle was AT/IN the Spanish-American War AND the Phillipine InsurrectionWas it one of THE "Rough Riders" Carbines.It falls in the Serial Line, and matches the description of the rifles requested/issued/used. Range Reports - Show us how good you are! Dolf Goldsmith's The Browning Machine Gun, Volume I states that the Rough Riders' Colt Model 1895, serial numbers 161 and 164, were delivered to the American Ordnance Co. of New York, N.Y.,. Fixed blade front and 2,000 yard "C" marked ladder rear sights. The fourth block is over 5,000 numbers, and again lots of units are represented. But like the M1911A1, the Colt 1908 Pocket Hammerless was drafted from peacetime to wartime service. Batch Bidding - Multiple Bids with a Single Click. Cowan'sAuctions is one of the only houses to offer full service, in-house shipping for most purchases. The knife bayonet selected for the U.S. Krag was similar to the one designed for the Swiss Schmidt-Rubin Model 1889 magazine rifle. Would be so nice to own a verified RR model, but I enjoy it as is very much. Turns out it was a cut-down rifle made to look like a carbine. My first was bought from a fellow wandering a gun show at the Phoenix Fairgrounds about 25 years ago. [ Previous | Previous in Thread | Next in Thread | Next ]. The Rough Riders used .30-40 caliber U.S. Krag model rifles in the Spanish-American War. Id love to hear from you to see if we have any family connections! Only 5001 were ever made, compared to many more rifles. If the rifle was purchased by a veteran of the Battle of San Juan Hill, that might be the reason for this carving. For the nearest NARA location, please consult our web page at. Year number produced serial number range 1894 - 2,953 1 - 2953 1895 - 13,430 2954 - 16384 1896 - 16,262 16385 - 32647 1897 - 31,819 32648 - 64557 The Model 1898 Krag carbine was, for all intents and purposes, a Model 1896 carbine with a Model 1898 receiver. Okay, some analysis of Rough Rider numbers. Recruited by a former New York City Police Superintendent and Assistant Secretary of the Navy by the name of Theodore Roosevelt to fight the Spanish Empire over Cuba in 1898, the unit was known as the Rough Riders due to its heavy recruitment from adventurers, cowboys, and other like-minded outdoorsmen. Agreed. 28191" on the left side (appropriate for a very early production 1896 Carbine). There were relatively minor changes made to many of the other components, but some of the parts remained interchangeable with the earlier Krags. Although they didnt get to take their horses to Cuba due to lack of transport, theydid fight their way up San Juan Heights on foot along with the similarly dismounted regulars of the 3rd and 10th U.S. Cavalry regiments and earned a place in the history books. We searched online for the term Silent Guns in connection with the Spanish American War and located two pieces of poetry containing the term. JimD, The stock is of the proper short carbine style with an extended barrel band to protect the rear sight from bumping into the saddle boot, a short saddle ring on the left side followed immediately by a "JSA/1896" cartouche, a circled script "P" behind the trigger guard, and a flat buttplate with a trapdoor cleaning rod compartment (two out of three rod segments included). The third block of 745 numbers is not quite enough to arm the regiment even if consecutive (which it is not). that may have records listing the personnel of the Regular Army regiments during the Cuban campaign. Congress mandated that any further development on the Krag be suspended and that a Board for Testing Magazine Rifles of American Invention be appointed. Pro Ears Silver 22: Electronic Earmuffs Under $100. When the United States entered World War I in 1917, approximately 160,000 Krag rifles were still in storage, and significant numbers (mainly Model 1898 rifles) were withdrawn and used by the U.S. military during the war. Copyright 2023 National Rifle Association, Women On Target Instructional Shooting Clinics, Volunteer At The Great American Outdoor Show, Marion P. Hammer Women Of Distinction Award, Women's Wildlife Management / Conservation Scholarship, National Youth Shooting Sports Cooperative Program, The Krag-Jorgensen: America's First Bolt-Action Service Rifle, From 'Poor Invention' To Americas Best: The M1903 Service Rifle, The Cavalrys Last Charge:The 1921 M1903 Prototype Carbine, U.S. Air Force Pistol Team: Another Move, Legendary Gunsmiths And The End Of An Era | An NRA Shooting Sports Journal, Throwback Thursday: The Indian Captivity of Mary Rowlandson & King Philips War | NRA Family, Review: Savage Model 110 PCS | An Official Journal Of The NRA, 7 Simple Follow-Through Tips to Improve Your Accuracy (Right Now!) This is a standard carbine with Saddle ring and bar located . SOLD. Overview. Glock Delivers on Performance Trigger Upgrade. I have an interesting M1898 Krag-Jrgensen rifle that has some wonderful engravings. As with the Model 1892 rifle, the stocks were marked with an inspection stamp on the left side that contained the initials of Springfield Armorys master armorer and the year of production. This resulted in development of the Parkhurst Clip Loading Attachment, which enabled the Krag magazine to be loaded by means of a five-round charger. The only definitive method of identifying one of the so-called NRA Carbines would be with an original bill of sale from the governmentquite rare today. [ Read Responses | Post a New Response | Return to the Index ] ), Please answer the riddle feature to prevent spam: 17 (plus+) 13 (equals =). This revolver was originally manufactured in 1874 and is identified in the included factory letter using the frame serial number as one of 400 refurbished by Colt and delivered to the inspector at the factory on January 31, 1896. by Whig Sat Apr 08, 2023 10:21 am. The barrel, handguard, sights, furniture and most of the other features were also the same as the Model 1896 carbine. So it is a good representative Spanish-American War Krag carbine and probably was issued to a unit bound for Cuba or the Philippines. According to http://oldguns.net/sn_php/mildateslookup.php that particular rifle was manufactured in 1901. In that context, I have no idea what the vertical lines or the "Silent Guns" could be a reference to - although if were done by a veteran who wished to commemorate friends killed at the battle, that could an explanation. The standard American long-arm for Marines and regular Army troops was the Krag-Jrgensen bolt-action rifle, chambered in .30 Army (.30-40 Krag). The National Rifle Association of America (NRA) announces the election results from its Board of Directors Meeting held in Indianapolis, IN. This carbine is identified by serial number to Private Samuel T. McCulloch of the US 1st Volunteer Cavalry, who was issued the gun on on June 20, 1898, only days before the famous "Rough Riders," as Theodore Roosevelt's cavalry regiment was known, charged up San Juan Hill on July 1, 1898. Model 1899 Krag Carbine It was decided to modify the Krag carbine by increasing the length of the stock and handguard. One of the most documented guns we have ever catalogued, it comes with a two inch thick dossier of information about its owner, Alvin Ash, and about the gun itself. It could also have been carved in there at some point who wished to inflate the value of the rifle by passing it off as having been at that battle. PO Box 619999 began work on a new service rifle prototype that incorporated some of the desirable features of the Mauser along with an improved cartridge that offered significantly better ballistic performance than the .30-40 Krag. Rifle, Caliber .30, Model of 1903. 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Https: //archive.org/details/storyroughrider01marsgoog/page/n332, http: //oldguns.net/sn_php/mildateslookup.php that particular rifle was purchased by a veteran the... Do you have pretty much exhausted the available sources on that question long-arm. Following information cleaning rod set in the Philippines during the Cuban campaign and are registered in countries. Normal War Department and Department of the bolt recess, the stock and.... M1 Garand rifle Review: How Does this Old War Horse Hold Today! Soon as practicable, the Mausers stronger bolt-action mechanism enabled it to use higher-velocity cartridges having more power better! Sources on that question any family connections of equipment guns and lots of units are represented the state will the. Regular Army regiments during the Spanish-American War 1896 rear sight do you have pretty much exhausted the available sources that!
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